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Archive 1Archive 2

Perhaps someone could find some use for the information at [1] ?

Some brief information about the author:

  • He is a shibucho and shihan in the Genbukan, one of the recognized X-kans that teach Ninjutsu.
  • He holds a MA in Medieval Japanese History from Stanford University.
  • He holds a PhD in the same from the Historiographical Institute of the University of Tokyo.
  • He is a researcher at the aforementioned institute.
  • He has specialized in reading medieval Japanese, and teaches Japanese history in Japan.
  • He has a background as a special-forces captain, specialized in counterterrorism and precision combat.

This should make his work fairly valuable in increasing the signal-to-noise ratio in the articles regarding Ninjutsu, ninja, and the X-kans. Of course, a single source is not authorative, but this work is better documented than these pages appear to be, and I'm sure he would be willing to cite sources if a polite request was made, or possibly to make a Wikipedia account and touch up some of these pages himself. 212.169.96.218 01:06, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Shin-Ninjitsu

I made a start tidying up the following paragraph, but I realised that I can't make much sense out of it.

  • Shin-Ninjitsu originated in Europe in 2003. It was conceived out of frustration with the authentic styles. Since some of the styles labeled as being controversial are more like what Ninjutsu would have looked like in the 16th century than many of the authentic styles who focus more on the hand to hand combat aspect of Ninjutsu. This is why the founders of Ryu-Ha Shin-Ninjitsu labeled their style a modern form of Ninjutsu. The title Shin is reserved for styles that don’t have a direct lineage to a Japanese Ryu either because they mixed several styles or because it’s a special forces system.

reference: http://experts.about.com/e/r/ry/Ryu-Ha_Shin-Ninjitsu.htm

It's implied that Shin-Ninjitsu(sic) resembles 16th century ninjutsu more than the 'authentic' styles - but would that make Shin-Ninjutsu more authentic? From where do they get their description of what ninjutsu involved, and why specifically the 16th century? It would be good if someone could provide more information regarding this system, specifically:

Why the focus on 16th century historical ninjutsu, and the ambiguity around the word 'authentic'?

Is there a precedent for the use of 'Shin' in this context? Can it be provided?

The mention of 'special forces system' seems like a pointless description - could this be made more accurate?

SimonFr 10:39, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

With no further input, and for the reasons above, I have trimmed the section and hopefully made it fit with the rest of the article. SimonFr 16:34, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
I think we should create an new article about Shin-Ninjutsu, in order to keep track of all non-traditional styles.--201.19.29.53 22:36, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

It this someway related to the Neo-ninja article?Xymor 16:29, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I've stumbled upon refereces of "Neo Ninjutsu" in martialtalk.com and e-budo.com precisely refering to untradidional newly created styles. I propose the creation of a Neo Ninjutsu article engulfing all Modern styles like Genbukan and Jinenkan among others. --Xymor 22:17, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

To group the Genbukan and Jinenkan under neo-ninjutsu would make no sense. Both are teaching essentially the same curriculum as the Bujinkan, with primarily a difference in teaching style and emphasis. Neither makes any attempt at passing ninjutsu off as anything more than it is. None of the X-kans teach the ninjutsu part of the curriculum to any significant extent anymore, as it is relevant only as a history preservation effort; the techniques are specific to the era, technology and political environment when they where developed. Zuiram 23:11, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Bujinkan Brian Dojo

Someone's just added a mention of the Bujinkan Brian Dojo, headed by Brian McCarthy. I would have said this wasn't a large enough group to be mentioned alongside the Jinenkan and Genbukan, as otherwise the list would include people like Ishizuka, too. I'm wary of removing the mention myself, as I'm aware I probably have a personal bias in this matter. What to do? SimonFr 09:39, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

_Bujinkan_ Brian Dojo - the name is clearly intended to communicate association with the Bujinkan. As such, it needs to go to a new heading, or move to the Bujinkan article. Paleorthid 16:05, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I've removed the mention of the BBD from this article, and will look into a list of similar Bujinkan splinter groups to add to the Bujinkan page. SimonFr 16:11, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Removed mention again, Brian should not be referencing the Bujinkan name in the title of his organisation.

Foreign Chars.

Ehm, I'm not sure if I should post this up top or at the bottom... Anyways, I was looking thorugh the history and found some stuff typed in a foreign language. If anyone understands this stuff, could you give us a brief translated summary? Then the ppl who know more can decide whether or not we should keep it.

== Nukenin-Ryu == - Os conceitos fundamentais da Nukenin-Ryu, são embasados em algumas escolas tradicionais de ninjutsu, notadamente no estilo pessoal desenvolvido por Goemon Ishikawa. Trata-se de um estilo forte e muito eficiente, baseado nas artes de guerra japonesas. No entanto o mundo gira, o tempo passa e a evolução deve ser um processo contínuo em nossa vida, com isso em mente Shihan Claudio Muniz decidiu remodelar a arte da Gouki-Nankai e trazê-la a luz do mundo, dando oportunidade a todos que desejam aprender uma arte marcial eficiente e completa. - Mas por que criar um novo método de arte marcial? Alguns devem estar se perguntando. O principal motivo foi modernizar treinamentos, exercícios e técnicas tidas, pelo Shihan, como ineficientes. Outro motivo foram as divergências de opinião entre - os praticantes da Associação Gouki-Nankai, alguns desejavam manter a arte em segredo, outros queriam manter os métodos tradicionais, mas era unânime que a arte devia mudar de nome, abandonando o termo Gouki-Nankai e assumindo um outro. O impasse - levou a dissolução oficial do grupo, e o mestre Claudio Muniz decidiu prosseguir com a Gouki-Nankai tornando-a uma associação e re-organizando as graduações e formas gerando um novo sistema de luta, mas mantenho os Taos e Ryu-Keikos (formas e - exercícios marciais) originais. - - Site inexistente - Links - www.ronnin.com.br/goukinankai

Other Schools

"Other Schools: There are many frauds out there claiming to teach Ninjutsu, the only legitimate schools are the ones listed in the previous paragraph." -- the sort of claim that greatly benefits from documentation.

For documentation, please refer to the Japanese martial arts lineages registry. It is essentially the reference for such things. Also, if you can't read/speak Japanese, you might want to consider that the term Ninjutsu generally refers to the "covert" ops parts of the styles practiced in the Iga and Koga regions; the Koga lineages are documented to be extinct, while the Iga lineages have been passed on to Matsumi Hasaaki (plus the Togakure-ryu Tanemura-ha lineage which branched from it). In the ryu-ha system, there is generally a linear succession (with the occasional -ha split) of grandmastership.
In the meaning of "legitimate" that I think was meant here, there is no ambiguity in the sources. What you might want to discuss, however, is the exact meaning of "legitimate" in such a context. If you consider anyone who has trained in such an art as a legitimate source for a new lineage, that may be a different matter. 212.169.96.218 23:53, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Deletions

203.45.155.14 made a bit of a mess here by deleting just about everything except links to sub-disciplines such as Taijutsu. Deleting content is not acceptable - I've reverted the original article. If Ninjutsu is just a collection of subdisciplines, it's still okay to have descriptions of those subdisciplines here, as well as a discussion of the overall field. No need to go deleting everything! -- Tim Starling

He's done something similar again. If you have some problem with the contents of the page, anonymous user, then please say what the problem is here - if you simply remove content, it will likely be put back. --Camembert

Mr Starling, Camembert (My favourite cheese by the way); I was deleting information that was misleading- 'no info' is better than 'false info'. Did either of you write those articles? I don't mean to offend anyone. Why don't you contact Don Roley (If you know anything about "Ninjutsu" you should be able to make contact) or any other history expert that has researched "Ninjutsu history, or you could contact Unsui Manaka (Again, I'm not going to give their personal info) and ask for his input. The fact is: Ninjutsu per se is not really taught anymore, anywhere; Ninjutsu is not a 'fighting art', the Ninja were spies, if they were recognised in the first place- well they lost. -- Simmmmm

If you aren't willing to give out contact details perhaps you should invite them to have a look at these pages themselves in order to correct them.

What's the Problem?

There have been several Bujinkan members who looked over this page and said everything was just fine. What's the problem here? What is not accurate? We are all well aware Ninjutsu is more than a fighting art. There is no need to go destroying the Ninjutsu section over one minor piece of wording. --Sojobo

Simmmmm- Have a look at Togakure Ryu, I'll add to the other ryuha pages when I get time. Ninjutsu is not a fighting art. Most Bujinkan members know almost nothing about Ninjutsu anyway, since it hasn't really been taught (bar a few stealth walking techniques). There is no need to make any mention of Ninjutsu in the Taijutsu article, it is misleading. As for the Ninjutsu article, if you un-protect it, all that I'll change are the first three paragraphs (They are incorrect), I won't delete anything else.

Hi Simmmmm - I've unprotected the page now. A couple of tips: if something is simply untrue, but widely believed to be true, it can sometimes be useful to say in the article something like: "It is commonly believed that X. However, this is not the case..." and so on. Of course, we don't want to present falsehoods as fact, but explicitly debunking common myths is very useful. And if you are going to make big deletions, then it's good to say why you're doing it on the talk page. By the way, I like the look of your last edit on Taijutsu, and Togakure Ryu looks good as well. --Camembert

I don't know much about it, but shouldn't something be said about its association with Japan, and possibly China and/or other areas? Just how old is it; surely someone can estimate at least within a century or two, if no exact date for something like this is available. Wesley

(break edited out--JJL)

Simmmmm - I'm glad you've finally come to the table. You said "I was deleting information that was misleading- 'no info' is better than 'false info'". That's not how it works here, as you've discovered. Wikipedians are quite hostile to deletion of information - you can't expect to get away with it. Tim Starling


  • As you can see, I have added to the Ninjutsu and Ninja pages; when I have time I'll submit some more articles. The original articles were written by someone with the username 'Eco' I think. 'Eco' has caused trouble elsewhere (On other 'Wikipedia' articles, and on other forums); he was deleting my information also. Why did all of you gang up on me? It should also be noted, 'Eco' (Real name: Tony Fucilla) has no training in any of the schools related to Ninjutsu, he has only read books written by people with no training in Ninjutsu (Probably got some info off of the 'net' too), he was thinking of joining the 'Temple of the Full Autumn Moon'. No hard feelings! My gripe is with 'Eco' not any of you.
    • Mr Starling and Camembert... Just out of curiosity: Do you have any experience in any of the X-kan?
    • Mr Starling... Physics is one of my favourite disciplines. Why did you choose to study Physics? What is your favourite sub-discipline of Physics?
      • I'll put my answer on Simmmmm's user talk page. Tim Starling

No, I have no X-kan experience, and I'm not very knowledgeable about this whole area - I just stuck my nose in here because I could see quite a bit of stuff was being deleted without explanation, and I was worried that it was a vandal just messing things up for fun - it's now clear that you're not a vandal, but as I say, it's usually good to explain why you're making deletions when you make them. Anyway, apologies if it seemed we were ganging up on you - we were just concerned about the disppearing content - as you say, no hard feelings. Cheers --Camembert

  • No worries. If you anyone is interested in Ninjutsu, have a look at Talk:Togakure Ryu for information on how to obtain a reference of every formal technique of Togakure Ryu. I don't know if this will be available to the public, but the photographs on the link given (The link on Talk:Togakure Ryu) are good anyway. - Simmmmm (If anyone is interested, I'll post a couple of Ninjutsu techniques, and some techniques from the other ryuha.
    • I have submitted the following articles : Gyokko Ryu, Koto Ryu, Takagi Yoshin Ryu, Shinden Fudo Ryu, and Kukishin Ryu; please read them and tell me what you think, the Kukishin Ryu is my favourite. If there are any other articles you would like to see, please make a request. Tommorow I will write an article on Bajutsu (Horsemanship), I'll include descriptions of techniques too. I appreciate it when I get feedback.

(break edited out--JJL)

As you can see, I have added to the Ninjutsu and Ninja pages; when I have time I'll submit some more articles. The original articles were written by someone with the username 'Eco' I think. 'Eco' has caused trouble elsewhere (On other 'Wikipedia' articles, and on other forums); he was deleting my information also. Why did all of you gang up on me? It should also be noted, 'Eco' (Real name: Tony Fucilla) has no training in any of the schools related to Ninjutsu, he has only read books written by people with no training in Ninjutsu (Probably got some info off of the 'net' too), he was thinking of joining the 'Temple of the Full Autumn Moon'. No hard feelings! My gripe is with 'Eco' not any of you.

Uhhhhhh, it seems we have a problem here. First off, my "real name" isn't Tony. I know a few guys named Tony -- none of them with the last name FUCILLA. I have one friend whose name is Tony, and he's been known to use my computer but I don't think he has much interest in martial arts. I know he tried a few different dojos around here, but he's mostly into selling drugs and beating people up. In fact last time he used my computer he somehow managed to break Scan Disk (how the hell do you break scan disk???). Lets see, other than that, there's about 3 people who I share my computer with (none of them named Tony). I think one is only remotely interested in getting into the Martial Arts. The other is here on Wikipedia, he uses my comp (Sojobo). He edited up the Ninjutsu article under my name a few times before he got his own.

I hang out on all of about 2 forums, not including Wikipedia. Sounds like a case of mistaken identity. Oh yeah, and second thing is that I AM a student at the Temple of the Full Autumn Moon but I believe it's best to keep a low profile. I, more or less, wrote the original Ninjutsu article out of boredom. I now realize I shouldn't have included TFAM when making that article. I shouldn't have done anything to the martial arts page at all, really. I hate MA politics! You are right on one thing though, most of knowledge comes from a rather extensive library of books on various styles -- where do you get your info from? The only thing I have taken from the net is a few things from Bujinkan websites.

My primary interest on Wikipedia is the Soviet history section. I think I'll stay there and possibly monitor the people using my computer.

Kill the imposter!
-- (the real) Eco

(break edited out--JJL)

I was thinking about this. First off, anyone who wants to delete any reference to TFAM on Wikipedia, go ahead. I shouldn't have just gone and put it up, so do whatever you will with it (outside of making false accusations against it).

Oh yeah, could someone tell me where this person "hangs out?" I found McDojo.com and E-Budo on my history list but it was long after a few friends had their way with my precious internet. =\

--Eco


I'm just shocked that there's absolutely no mention of assassination, when everyone knows that contract killing (in addition to stealth) practically defined ninja - as spying defined shinobi. Can someone add that to the first paragraph? We learn several covert assassination techniques but I'm not so sure what I should include in the article. Suffice it to say that ninja could be very much more "hands-on" than simple spies. - "Nocturnal" (sorry, not registered yet since I rarely edit anything myself.)

Actually, to say that it "practically defined ninja" is rather imprecise. It tends to have defined the popular icon. Most sources, however, indicate that they were generally people who didn't fit into regular society and tried to make it on their own. This is supported by e.g. the inferior swords and swordsmanship of the Togakure-ryu. Also, "shinobi" is synonymous with "ninja". The earliest reference to their use in war, is actually something that translates as "stealers-in". It is also important to put these activities in a historical context: when a civil war is going on, it is presumably hard to avoid getting entangled in it. Note that I'm not saying it didn't happen, just that by most accounts, the offensive missions were not particularly successful. I have, however, seen a picture that I seem to recall depicts ninja guarding an Edo castle gate.
Also, by "we", who are you referring to? I train in the Genbukan, and can attest to the existence of techniques that could be highly useful in a covert ops scenario, but these are generally by no means unique compared to other Japanese martial arts. 212.169.96.218 00:15, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Quite right. They are associated with political assassination by reputation at least, even if they are not likely to be actively assassinating people today. I have added a mention of this to the page, and tried to be npov about it. Fire Star 14:53, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Perfectly NPOV, and good distinction between reputation and reality. Thanks! - Nocturnal
Considering that there are no living ninjas today, with the possible exception that a few sources suggest that some ninja were eventually absorbed by the Yakuza and Japanese secret police forces, I would say that it is a fair certainty that these corpses would not be assassinating anyone today.
And while e.g. the Ninja Seishin poem refers to rising up in defense of one's country, the X-kans do not endorse (and, in fact, prohibit) anyone from using violence for other means than self-preservation, unless you are part of the "legitimate" armed forces of your country. 212.169.96.218 00:15, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps some mention could be made about the influence on the historical ninja of esoteric religious philosophies, such the "rat demon scroll" story and maybe Shingon? Fire Star 14:57, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I think that would be rather inappropriate. There is nothing to substantiate such an influence; e.g. Google turns up exactly zero hits for "rat demon scroll", which sounds like something out of Anime. In particular, since this is a page about Ninjutsu, rather than the ninja, it is hard to see how such a philosophy as Shingon would impact the style.
As one practicioner pointed out, "If a samurai fought honorably and died, his liege would be obligated to care for his family, and their fighting was influenced by this. If a ninja died, his family would starve, so their techniques tended to revolve around getting home safely."
In a country torn up by civil war, with no pool to recruit warriors from and no legitimately held lands, you can't really afford the luxury of "styling" your arts. You take what works, and what worked for the other people who lived another day, and in intermittent peaceful periods, you try to systematize it and find out why these things worked. 212.169.96.218 00:15, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Jack Hoban et al

Jack Hoban is world renown for being the greatest Ninja and martial arts expert of all time. He is also quite good with the guitar.

Wikipedia:List_of_Wikipedians_by_martial_art add yourself!

Wikipedia:List_of_Wikipedians_by_martial_art

Marial arts category for Wikipedians

A new category for those interested in martial arts has been created at Category:Wikipedians_interested_in_martial_arts. To add yourself, simply copy the following code to the bottom of your own user page:

[[Category:Wikipedians interested in martial arts|{{subst:PAGENAME}}]]

Shawnc 11:44, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Terminology, possibly OT

Does ninjutsu use thee same terms as karate for punches and kicks. If not,what is the terminology for different moves. Batzarrö

Sort of. There are still Japanese words being used, so when coming from Shotokan to the Bujinkan, I could recognise bits of it, but the names of specific things aren't quite the same. For example, karate has 'gyaku tsuki' (reverse lunge/thrust) as a rear hand punch, and you meet those words in Ninjutsu - 'Omote Gyaku' as an 'outside reverse' lock, and 'tsuki' as a thrust or stab, commonly with a weapon. Punching in ninjutsu is not done in the same style as karate, however, and it's not referred to as a tsuki. The biggest change of meaning for me was learning that 'uke' (as in age uke, uchi uke, and other blocks) does not mean 'block', but 'receive', and is used to mean receiving the technique, both in terms of blocking (but again, a different type of blocking to karate) and as a person receiving the technique of someone who is practicing. Hope this helps. SimonFr 11:35, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Similarities with Journey to the West

Many of the jutsus described here and in the Naruto article have great similarities compared to those described in the Journey to the West novel about the monkey king. The ability to transform and/or disappear into the earth etc. are incredible in either case. However are these fictional skills related to the real ninjutsu? They are so similar that it is hard to believe the ninjutsu was not influenced by these mythical Chinese skills (奇門遁甲). Kowloonese 22:03, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Check Intonjutsu or Gotonpo . Several names are maybe inspired in real techniques and the "increbible" or "magical" attribute of them are part of the psychological warfare.--Xymor 18:38, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Questionable

The references at the bottom of the ninjutsu page are to books by Masaaki Hatsumi. Is there really any evidence that Hatsumi has actually trained "real" ninjutsu? I have heard this disputed and I know that the Swedish martial arts expert Robert von Sandor tried to make Hatsumi present evidence of this, but he got no reply.

What is really the evidence that Hatsumi trained authentic ninjutsu, or that any kind of ninjutsu has actually survived to this day? -Duribald

I guess you could consult the martial arts registry, or the proceedings behind the "living national treasure" bits. Or you could consult the scrolls that are used as a traditional means of lineagal transmission.
As for getting no reply, to the best of my knowledge, Hatsumi receives tons of different requests for various things via various media. Also, I'm not exactly sure his English is all that great. I'm not necessarily claiming that his "survival techniques" (a fairly literal translation of the word Ninjutsu) are genuine, but not answering every request from people who want you to prove the merit of your life's work is not necessarily proof that it has no merit. The skills are, however, no longer emphasized, as they are generally severely out of date; Hatsumi's teacher clearly pointed out that they were a product of a different time, and that if the need for these skills should ever arise, people would need to devise new techniques for their particular scenario.
In brief, the combat skills taught by Hatsumi are authentic and not exclusively used by the ninja. The non-combat skills (ninjutsu) appear to be authentic, but have a purely academic interest. 212.169.96.218 00:31, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Some edits by me...

I removed the quote by Takamatsu ("Also, remember that Takamatsu said.."). This is an encyclopedia, articles need to be constructed in a professional, informational manner, and not in a conversational tone. The quote looked totally out of place in the context it was in.

I modified the "the espionage techniques of ninjutsu are no longer taught..." because it was again, written in a casual, conversational tone. It's been rewritten more appropriately.

I removed the sentence about Togakure ryu being verified as a ninjutsu school. No such verification has ever taken place.

Paradoxbox2 August 5, 2006

Togakure Ryu itself is not disputed. Whether the lineage through Takamatsu-san is authentic Togakure, however, might be disputed by some people. In general, there is little controversy, though. These skills are of purely academic interest nowadays anyway. If you have any questions, I'd suggest contacting capt. Roy "Tosen" Ron at ninpo.org; his dayjob is teaching Japanese medieval history at the Tokyo Uni, historic faculty. He spends a lot of time on research, and could probably provide you with a definitive answer and the sources to back it up, if you make a polite inquiry. Zuiram 23:16, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

The heart of the warrior

All martial arts I see teach detachment. Over coming ones external and internal fears. Detachment from the body, then mind then the union with the spirit. The heart opens to see that their is no enemy. Their was no one their but the self. The attcker was mind and the defender was mind. The spirit remained a silent witness to the mind. The mind feared mind, its attchments. Their was no attacker their was no defender. The silent soul.

But what was the point of your post? Wikisquared 12:36, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Nine syllable dragon (or something)

What about the hand mudras used by the ninja? (e.g. rin, kyo, zen) There's nothing here about them at all, which is a waste because they were invented by ninjas to heighten spirituality and fighting ability. Wikisquared 12:36, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Please just forget about these.
No, seriously.
It's like asking for a section about making the sign of the cross in the article on medieval knights.
The shingon sequence (rin pyou toh sha kai jin retsu zai zen) is equivalent to making the sign of the cross for a Catholic: you're warding off "evil".
Just as the sign of the cross is not Catholicism, the shingon and the mudras are not Shinto or Mikkyo.
Nowadays, practicioners come from quite varied religious backgrounds, and these religious forms are used only by those who come from the backgrounds that use them.
Zuiram 23:26, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Modern Ninjutsu Styles, List Dump

This is a list of "modern ninjutsu styles" that is rather out-of-place in the "ninja" section. I would add it to the ninjutsu article, but since it is not properly sourced, I don't want to dump a huge unsourced lump into it. I -suspect- that the source for this is the book cited at the end of the ninja article:

Hatsumi, Masaaki (June 1981). Ninjutsu: History and Tradition. Unique Publications. ISBN 0-86568-027-2.

Since the original contributor did not source well, I can't be sure.

There are a few substantial articles that the links connect to, notably Togakure-ryū and Kōga-ryū (the few which have ties to the writer Masaaki Hatsumi). Since none of the other declared regional styles even have articles, I suspect it'd be easier and more apt to just refer to those one or two that do have articles, if this article doesn't mention them somewhere already. Tchalvak 08:44, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

See the list as it appears as its own section below this one...

List of modern ninjutsu styles (ryū)

The following list of ninjutsu styles practiced by ninja, known as ryū, is sorted by current prefectures in which the styles originated and in which their teaching is or was historically centered. In this context, the ordering may not be totally accurate as some historical and current boundaries do not coincide. Note also that some styles may no longer be practiced.

Masaaki Hatsumi, head of the Bujinkan Dojo is the current Soke of Togakure-ryu, Kumogakure-ryu and Gyokushin-ryu styles of Ninjutsu.

Koga: Koga-ryu

Ninjitsu vs Ninpo

I don't want to offend anyone, but ninjas, historically did not practice anything they called ninjitsu, the name ninjitsu derives from the word ninja, not the other way around. The only things we know for certain of ninjas is that they referred to their wide range of skills as ninpo. And that is not just their fighting skills or martial arts, but other skills as well, such as wilderness survival, none of these things were ever taught to anyone who was not a ninja. Ninjas were very secretive, their ways secluded and too little was ever recorded about their practices to be studied intimately to the point where those same refined practices could still be practiced today. The real ninpo, died with the real ninjas. Ninjitsu is an irrelavent term if you are referring to anything about real, historical ninjas. ManofRenown87 02:37, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


Undocumented claims

This article does not present a balanced overview. Hatsumi's claims of ninjutsu lineages are undocumented and unverified, just as are Ashida Kim's and Frank Dux's. Breaking these down into "verified" and "unverified" sections implies legitimacy for the former. One might note that the "verification" only refers to the fact that Hatsumi teaches in Japan, and that is undisputed. Placing the bujinkan/genbukan/jinenkan under "schools of ninjutsu" also seems biased. "three of which contain ninjutsu teachings" again shows bias. A more balanced phrase would be "three of which are claimed to contain ninjutsu teachings". Rather than continue, perhaps the following re-write might prove useful:


Heading: "Schools that claim to teach ninjutsu"

The Bujinkan Dōjō headed by Masaaki Hatsumi claims to teach ninjutsu (under the name Budo Taijutsu). Hatsumi's Bujinkan Dōjō consists of nine separate schools of allegedly traditional Japanese martial arts, only three of which are claimed to contain ninjutsu teachings. Hatsumi learned a variety of martial arts, possibly including ninjutsu, from Toshitsugu Takamatsu.

There are two related organizations claiming to teach ninjutsu. These are the Genbukan, headed by Shoto Tanemura, who left the Bujinkan in 1984, and the Jinenkan, headed by Fumio Manaka, who left later. Both had achieved Menkyo Kaiden before leaving due to differences of opinion with regards to the teaching style.

Other extant traditional martial arts such as the Tenshin Shoden Katori Shintō-ryū claim to contain some aspects of ninjutsu in their curriculum, but their teachings are focused elsewhere.

Ashida Kim is an American martial artist who has made unverified claims of cross-training into ninjutsu, as well as unsubstantiated claims of being the last Koga-ryu ninja. Frank Dux is a martial artist whose ninjutsu claims are unverified. Koga-ryu Ninjutsu is believed to have survived into the mid-20th century, apparently having been passed to Fujita Seiko by a relative. Seiko had students, but did not pass on this legacy. Koga-ryu arts are generally considered to be virtually identical to the Iga-ryu arts.

There are several offshoots of the bujinkan system:

Israel was one of the first places where Bujinkan teachings were practiced outside Japan, with Doron Navon pioneering it there in 1974. The AKBAN organization uses the Bujinkan curriculum the way it was used when Doron Navon, the first foreign Bujinkan shihan, studied under Hatsumi sensei.

Stephen K. Hayes studied under Hatsumi and teaches an Americanized system, To-Shin Do, in his Quest Centers.

Richard Van Donk, who was one of the first foreigners to take the Godan test from Soke Hatsumi, encouraged Hatsumi to do videos of his teachings and helped him distribute them worldwide, thereby growing the bujinkan system. Richard has been graded to 15th dan from Hatsumi.

The Late Dr. Glenn Morris studied under Hatsumi and founded the Hoshin Roshi Ryu.

Chadwick Minge studied under Shoto Tanemura and founded the "Yamato Dojo" ("Studio City Martial Arts") based in California.

Brian McCarthy was graded to 8th dan and awarded the title of shihan by Hatsumi. He founded the Bujinkan Brian Dojo (BBD) in the early 1980's and has dojo's around Europe. Brian McCarthy withdrew the BBD from the administration of the Bujinkan International (as it was called) in 1997. The BBD continues to provide high quality instruction in traditional bujinkan teachings.

Inutoneko 05:21, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

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